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Shelagh Robinson teaches college classes on the psychology of vision. Who’d’ve thunk such a niche zone of genius could come in this handy? Today she moonlights at Eleusis, where she’s interviewed 90+ people about what they saw tripping on DMT for an hour straight.
We asked Shelagh how DMTx works, what people experience after breaking through the “waiting room,” and whether other psychedelics could be dialed with the same level of control.
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How did you end up on the Eleusis team? What drew you to this project?
Everyone on the team uses the word “synchronicity.” It feels like we’re not supposed to be here, yet we’re all here.
I’ve been in private practice as a psychologist in Montreal for 20 years, and I’ve taught the psychology of vision at the college level for 30 years. About four years ago, it felt like time to explore, so I looked into what was happening with psychedelics. I ended up training with Numinus and have now spent three years working with ketamine protocols.
Last November, I was already planning a trip to Barbados when a friend sent me a link about a place in Bequia, just 45 minutes away, that was working with DMTx. I was intrigued, so I cold-called them to ask if I could come say hello. They asked for my CV, one call led to another, and by the end of my surfing vacation, I had an offer.
They initially brought me on to do the microphenomenological interviews after guests’ sessions. We ran our first cohorts in March, left the island, and came back in May for six more. We’ve had close to 50 guests so far, and I’ve done over 90 interviews.
After May, there was so much interest that we had to hire more people, and my role expanded to preparation. I now do screenings, plus one-on-one and group sessions before people come to the island. We're very thorough with our screening process to ensure people are well-prepared and to reduce drug interactions because we want to know what DMTx is like on its own. It’s almost like astronaut training. Not everybody gets to go on the mission.
Can you give us a primer on DMTx? Where did this protocol come from, and what happens during a session?
A conventional DMT voyage lasts about seven to eight minutes, which is just enough time to launch before you’re drifting back down. Rick Strassman did the original research with an injection that put people into orbit and brought them back down safely. Andrew Gallimore then worked with Strassman to turn that data into a pharmacokinetic model with an infusion pump. Chris Timmermann’s team at Imperial College London showed it was safe and effective in people. We’re standing on the shoulders of giants, but we’ve updated the protocol.
At Eleusis, people come for either two or three sessions. The first is Calibration, which lasts 30 minutes, longer than almost anyone on Earth has had for a DMT session. Once the participant is in a steady state, we ask if they want more medicine. If they say yes, a bolus goes into the IV line. That can be the difference between visionary geometry and “breaking through,” which can mean many things. If anyone says stop, the pump goes off, and the medicine clears within six to eight minutes.
The second session is Refinement, which runs 45 minutes. By then people know the protocol, so they have more control and can move in with intention. The optional third session is Transcendence, which runs 75 minutes. People are even better at stabilizing themselves at that point, so it’s remarkable what they can come out with.
I did a qualitative analysis of the words people use afterward, and “wow” rose to the top. The common thread is astonishment. Familiarity is another interesting theme. Even people who’ve never had a psychedelic experience will come out saying they’ve been to this place before.
Beyond duration, how does a DMTx experience differ from a traditional DMT trip?
For one thing, our attention to hospitality at Eleusis changes the experience. Before our guests arrive, we’ve talked through details like diet, music, and whether they want to bring any personal objects. The sessions happen in suites at a five-star resort, with a hand to hold if desired. That’s not how most people do DMT. Often people are alone, without much thought to what could happen if something goes wrong.
Aside from set and setting, though, one of the biggest differences is pacing. On a regular DMT trip, everything moves so fast that it’s almost a blurring of vision. DMTx is like a roller coaster we can slow down. People can settle in and engage with their surroundings. We encourage people to look around, be curious, and pause before defining their experience by what they think they’re seeing.
Managing expectations is a big part of my job. A lot of people come wanting to talk to aliens and entities. That’s not everyone’s experience. The analogy I use is that the person is a bell, and the DMT molecule strikes it. Whenever someone says nothing happened, we advise them to be patient. We have follow-ups with people who talk about reverb three or four months later.
What happens in your post-session interviews? What are people bringing back?
We leave meaning-making to the guest. Our interview protocol is to accept what people tell us and probe deeper into specifics like colors, movements, positions, and changes to get the highest-resolution picture possible. If someone starts interpreting, I gently guide them back into description. This work is cartography. We’re mapping the DMT state and creating an atlas of consciousness.
People describe scenes that are realer than real. They saw the sand on their sandal and felt a spear in their hand. Someone once described skateboarding on the inside of a conch shell and finding a multicolored chameleon shooting rainbows out of its eyes. My job was to back up and ask what color the skateboard was and what happened next.
The entities people meet don’t sound like the vaguely hostile ones Joe Rogan describes. We hear about a lot of tenderness and compassion, and the sense of being watched over. People ask the entities questions and get answers like, “don’t be so caught up in the details.” The entities apparently don’t like numbers. They also don’t like being called female or male.
If there’s another theme, it’s love. People come out saying their cohort was meant for them and they’re so lucky to be here. At breakfast, everybody’s eyes are shining, and people are weeping with gratitude.
What research questions are you most interested in answering?
My science background makes me curious about how preparation and setting impact the journey, including the sounds going into people’s bodies. I also want to learn more about dosage and what it takes to get past the “waiting room” of geometry and fractals into the more expansive realms beyond.
I’m just as interested in the healing side. DMT is being discussed as something paramedics might use after a stroke, when less oxygen reaches the brain. That makes me curious about what it does for the body, not just the mind, after the astonishment wears off. So I’m tracking people’s sleep and pain, specifically rheumatoid arthritis and joint pain. Fractals and entities are nice, but I’d love to hear that people are breathing better, communicating more clearly, and sleeping more restfully, too.
Our license from the St. Vincent government also gives us access to other molecules, provided we jump through a few hoops. That leaves the door open to working with 5-MeO-DMT, MDMA, LSD, and psilocybin with the same level of fine-tuned control we have over DMTx. People could turn it on, boost, pause, and turn it off.
I’m a skeptic at heart. Still, I’ve had to move into the world of mystery more than I expected. At this point, I’m unapologetically on the side of this being something pretty special.
Want more from Shelagh?
Learn more about DMTx at Eleusis.
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DISCLAIMER: This newsletter is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice. The use, possession, and distribution of psychedelic drugs are illegal in most countries and may result in criminal prosecution.





